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[Music]

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but he was arrested on July 6th of this

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year yeah which is about roughly

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speaking what like what eight or nine

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years after he had got out of prison the

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first time right it was almost 10 years

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so we had been reporting on this case

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since 2014 which again is years after

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even the prison sentence so when he

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finally got arrested like six years

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after we started reporting on him it was

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a huge shock and just the first of many

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shocks that would happen in this case

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yeah so like I agree as a shock that's

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why I wanted to start with July 6 is

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what is your guy's theory as to why out

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of nowhere 10 years later he's arrested

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there's a lot of different theories in

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terms of like the fact that his

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usefulness might have been declining to

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some people if you believe the theory

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that we've argued that he was an agent

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of the Mossad there have been some

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changes in us-israeli relations over the

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last couple years in terms of espionage

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that might have made him you know less

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of a valuable asset for the people that

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were protecting him on the other hand

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the Sen Y which was the group that

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finally went after him for this

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I think they've traditionally operated a

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little bit outside of more like federal

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protocol in terms of who they're going

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after they really seem to just want to

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go after the big fish even if they're

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you know Southern District of New York

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and famous for prosecuting white-collar

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crimes in New York and so on Michael

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Balcon etc mm-hmm so so I think it's a

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little bit about them you know having

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the balls to go after him and then also

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you know the part that we're still

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investigating is how did the people that

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have been protecting him for so long how

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did this happen that they finally

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decided that it wasn't worth it anymore

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do you think the fact that it was the

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Trump administration changes anything I

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mean I that's his US attorney in the

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Southern District of New York the guy

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before him I forget his name is a per

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each something but he's a real anti

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trend yeah he's big anti Trump guy

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do you think that played into it yeah

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the Trump administration is totally tied

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in to this as you know if it had been

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Clinton I probably would have been

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saying the same thing both of them are

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intricately entangled with that scene

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and we actually found in the book this

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is super interesting the night of the

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2016 election Jeffrey Epstein flew from

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Paris where he'd been living and his

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plane had been there for like months he

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flew to Saudi Arabia on the eve of the

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election stayed in Saudi Arabia up until

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almost like the moment that the election

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was called for Trump and then flew back

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to Paris so why did he feel like he

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needed to go hide out in Saudi Arabia

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pending the results of the election like

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that's another kind of big red flag that

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we're looking into so so your best

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theory today as to why this US attorney

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in New York would have chosen to take on

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this case that was previously

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essentially for all intensive purposes

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dismissed by the US Attorney acosta in

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Miami is what I think one thing is

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climbing usefulness of Epstein part of

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that is the rise of digital surveillance

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and apps and things you don't need these

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on the ground spies anymore but at the

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same time you have to know there's been

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a huge cultural shift in terms of the

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believability of victims and how much

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weight that has as evidence you know in

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the past with his first arrest there

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were 34 confirmed miners that spoke to

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the police about their experience with

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him and that wasn't enough to convict

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that wasn't seen as solid evidence but

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after the whole me to movement over the

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last couple years we've definitely seen

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a cultural shift and everyone's

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willingness to listen to victims and who

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believe them and are you pretty

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confident that he got off so lightly in

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Miami because he was an agent of Mossad

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and that the word had come down from DC

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that hey hands off this guy yeah and I

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mean Acosta said it himself that he had

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been

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told Hugh's intelligence but something a

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lot of people don't even know which is

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in the book too is the fact that before

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he got this big sweetheart deal that you

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know gave him just a couple months in

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prison he was actually offered another

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even better sweetheart deal by the

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government he was offered a deal that

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would have seen him served no prison

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time that would have just put him on

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probation in his house in Palm Beach and

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that he rejected the deal at the time

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because he still thought he was gonna

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get away with it Dershowitz Alan

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Dershowitz who was his attorney at the

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time said that he really believed he had

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a strong case he was gonna walk free but

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it's just total it's ridiculous that

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people like Acosta and Trump are saying

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you know this sweetheart deal it was

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just the best we could do we really

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wanted him to serve some prison time

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it's so important it's total BS because

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a couple months before they gave him an

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even better deal and the only reason he

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didn't take it is because he was hedging

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his bets so what is Acosta up to today

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we don't really know he's kind of

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vanished from the radar that's something

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that we're planning on going after for

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like our next book the sequel is going

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down in Florida find him find his family

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I'm sure he and the people around him

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definitely have some kind of a story to

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tell about what's gone down with all of

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this yeah I mean if he got the directive

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from the Attorney General which is I

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think what you guys are a certain

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asserting which is is that Michael

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Mukasey

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I'm not sure who it was at the time

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we're kind of asserting more like higher

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up even than that like CIA uh-huh

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but anyway bottom line who said that it

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came from yeah sorry it was the AG was

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Michael Mukasey which I think I got this

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from your book actually who was Jewish

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and very close to Israel so there's a

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potential theory there that he has his

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own Israeli connections and therefore

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was aware of it and get the word out but

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anyway point point is that if Acosta got

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the director from DC he really took a

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bullet by resigning rather than giving

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that up yeah and

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you we've started to see this with a lot

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of other people that have been kind of

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unceremoniously booted from chomps inner

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circle you know people that took a

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bullet for him and didn't get the same

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in return so I think is only a matter of

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time before we hear the truth from him

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okay so that so on July 6th he's

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arrested July 18th is the is when bail

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is denominator which was a pretty big

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deal which is probably worth talking

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about a little bit you know Epstein has

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got plenty of money so he's hoping to be

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able to during the pendency of the

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period before the trial to be out on

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parole essentially and even suggested as

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much as a hundred million dollar bail

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which was all rejected just funny money

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right yeah so he when he was waiting for

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the first conviction back in no six he

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actually waited out the whole

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investigation on his private cribben

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island which is now known as orgy island

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or a little Saint Jeff I'm sure he was

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trying to plan to do the same thing

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obviously the Virgin Islands part of

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them are US territory so he could

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ostensibly go to his little oasis and

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just kind of hide out until the trial

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happened but we spoke to we had a

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reporter in the courtroom that day we

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spoke to Gloria Allred the famed victims

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rights attorney who was also in the

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courtroom that day and everybody said

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that when he found out that he wasn't

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getting bail he he looked very confused

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he looked very confused you look just

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totally white exhausted honestly it was

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surprising to me it was surprising to me

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that they had strong and kept him in

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prison yeah that's a tough that's a

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tough judge because you know the end of

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the day what he's accused of let's be

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honest I mean it's not a terribly

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terribly significant crime I mean he's

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basically alleged you know the actual

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complaint involved how many how many

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underage girls was in the axle in New

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York complained I forget to say half oh

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they're adults now so it's you know it's

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statutory rape

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essentially right I don't I don't I

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forget if the if that complaint actually

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accused him of being of essentially

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pimping the girls out or operating a sex

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ring it was really just him indulging

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right right so this isn't the most major

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federal crime that we of course like you

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know even if it was one person that's

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significant but this as far as in

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context of his greater crimes it was

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just the very tip of the iceberg

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you know what really influenced the

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decision was the fact that the federal

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agents when they were rating his New

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York mansion and found this fake

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passport which was a Saudi Patna an

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Austrian passport that listed his

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residence as Saudi Arabia like why why

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in the world did he have that and his

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attorneys came out and said what they

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had this convoluted story you know Oh a

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friend of his gave it to him and he was

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afraid that because he's Jewish somebody

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in the Middle East might try to kidnap

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him and it's like so you know you just

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start laughing halfway through it but

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that was enough to convince them that he

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was flight risk

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he had resources that they didn't even

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know about but I I mean judges try not

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to take in that external information

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that contacts but I feel like they that

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had to have played a part in the

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decision the fact they knew what

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everything else had he had done yeah

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well that judge deserves a lot of credit

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for doing that but yeah bottom line is

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you got a guy who was poured a ton of

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money in his own private plane that he

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flies wrong for the world and so talk

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about flight risk your comment about him

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being shocked by that ruling is

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interesting because if he committed

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suicide we have to kind of walk through

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he the spiral down that he experienced

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that being step one because one of the

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big questions in my mind was wait a

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minute this guy can afford to hire the

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dream team he can for an old Jays team

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times 10 and in fact he did hire the OJS

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team times 10 in Miami and it was very

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successful

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so he should have had every reason to

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believe that there was a good chance of

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him beating this or negotiating

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something very insignificant like he did

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in Miami so you know why did he

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apparently at some point become hopeless

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if you believe in the suicide route

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which I do so I need it I need I need to

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defend that but there is a spiraling

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down that you see that starts with that

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tonight correct mm-hmm I think the the

273
00:11:39,350 --> 00:11:35,260
world was kind of narrowing in a little

274
00:11:42,510 --> 00:11:39,360
bit but everything that we've heard from

275
00:11:45,270 --> 00:11:42,520
inside the jail including we spoke to an

276
00:11:46,980 --> 00:11:45,280
attorney that was with him I believe did

277
00:11:48,780 --> 00:11:46,990
one day or two days before the suicide

278
00:11:51,870 --> 00:11:48,790
attempt this is an old friend that had

279
00:11:54,630 --> 00:11:51,880
come to visit everybody said that he I

280
00:11:57,480 --> 00:11:54,640
mean delusionally or not he still seemed

281
00:11:59,340 --> 00:11:57,490
to like be willing to fight this he

282
00:12:01,350 --> 00:11:59,350
would hole up in the kind of attorney

283
00:12:03,570 --> 00:12:01,360
conference room at the prison for like

284
00:12:06,720 --> 00:12:03,580
the whole day days at a time with his

285
00:12:08,520 --> 00:12:06,730
team and this attorney that we spoke to

286
00:12:10,710 --> 00:12:08,530
who saw him just before the suicides

287
00:12:12,150 --> 00:12:10,720
that he did seem like he was in good

288
00:12:13,890 --> 00:12:12,160
spirits and he was talking about you

289
00:12:15,080 --> 00:12:13,900
know like future plans and things like

290
00:12:18,480 --> 00:12:15,090
that

291
00:12:23,760 --> 00:12:18,490
obviously nobody really knows unless you

292
00:12:25,200 --> 00:12:23,770
were there but certainly he it's his

293
00:12:27,330 --> 00:12:25,210
whole entire life he had this attitude

294
00:12:29,280 --> 00:12:27,340
that he was always gonna slip out of it

295
00:12:31,740 --> 00:12:29,290
no matter what happened even like in the

296
00:12:34,260 --> 00:12:31,750
early days before the pedophilia and the

297
00:12:36,180 --> 00:12:34,270
sex ring came to be he slipped out of so

298
00:12:37,950 --> 00:12:36,190
many sticky situations on Wall Street

299
00:12:39,930 --> 00:12:37,960
and issues with securities fraud and

300
00:12:41,640 --> 00:12:39,940
things like that that was his if

301
00:12:43,950 --> 00:12:41,650
anything to find his life it was that

302
00:12:46,350 --> 00:12:43,960
that he could get out of any scrape but

303
00:12:49,280 --> 00:12:46,360
starting with the bail like you said it

304
00:12:52,440 --> 00:12:49,290
you know if you believe in the suicide

305
00:12:54,630 --> 00:12:52,450
verdict there certainly were things that

306
00:12:57,330 --> 00:12:54,640
were happening that were you know they

307
00:12:59,010 --> 00:12:57,340
had to have conveyed to him that this

308
00:13:01,080 --> 00:12:59,020
was going to be different you know that

309
00:13:03,060 --> 00:13:01,090
one thing at a time whether it was

310
00:13:05,880 --> 00:13:03,070
having his house raided the passport

311
00:13:07,800 --> 00:13:05,890
discovered seeing these women his

312
00:13:10,680 --> 00:13:07,810
victims finally standing up and speaking

313
00:13:12,480 --> 00:13:10,690
out and mass like that all of these

314
00:13:14,960 --> 00:13:12,490
things had to have had some effect on

315
00:13:18,120 --> 00:13:14,970
his ability to believe that anymore

316
00:13:19,440 --> 00:13:18,130
what about meds is kind of ties into one

317
00:13:21,150 --> 00:13:19,450
of my theories

318
00:13:25,290 --> 00:13:21,160
we aware whether he was on any type of

319
00:13:27,090 --> 00:13:25,300
meds we're not we do have we had a

320
00:13:29,010 --> 00:13:27,100
source inside the prison that was on the

321
00:13:32,010 --> 00:13:29,020
same cell block as him but he didn't

322
00:13:33,600 --> 00:13:32,020
know anything about that haven't heard

323
00:13:35,820 --> 00:13:33,610
that from anybody and I don't know what

324
00:13:38,520 --> 00:13:35,830
happens when you go to prison if you are

325
00:13:40,800 --> 00:13:38,530
on meds now it's very possible a guy

326
00:13:42,630 --> 00:13:40,810
like him if he was on some type of beds

327
00:13:47,190 --> 00:13:42,640
I'm talking about for some psychiatric

328
00:13:48,690 --> 00:13:47,200
condition bipolar you name it it's very

329
00:13:51,330 --> 00:13:48,700
possible that he was getting them kind

330
00:13:55,050 --> 00:13:51,340
of off prescription anyway but you know

331
00:13:57,630 --> 00:13:55,060
if you're in prison and you are taking

332
00:13:59,670 --> 00:13:57,640
prescription medications I would imagine

333
00:14:03,420 --> 00:13:59,680
they permit you to continue those but

334
00:14:05,910 --> 00:14:03,430
I'm sure yeah I haven't I would believe

335
00:14:07,350 --> 00:14:05,920
that also but we've seen I've seen a lot

336
00:14:09,390 --> 00:14:07,360
of the prison records from when he was

337
00:14:12,900 --> 00:14:09,400
in Florida didn't I didn't see anything

338
00:14:14,490 --> 00:14:12,910
kind of about that and then there's been

339
00:14:16,170 --> 00:14:14,500
much less that's come out of the New

340
00:14:17,880 --> 00:14:16,180
York prison situation since the

341
00:14:20,520 --> 00:14:17,890
investigation still ongoing it but I

342
00:14:22,080 --> 00:14:20,530
haven't in all of the stuff that I've

343
00:14:24,060 --> 00:14:22,090
seen or talked to people that I haven't

344
00:14:26,130 --> 00:14:24,070
seen anything like that and you know

345
00:14:28,110 --> 00:14:26,140
when the police went through his trash

346
00:14:30,330 --> 00:14:28,120
for weeks at a time down in Palm Beach

347
00:14:31,500 --> 00:14:30,340
all of the hawks and the official record

348
00:14:34,860 --> 00:14:31,510
and you can see like everything that

349
00:14:38,360 --> 00:14:34,870
they found every scrap of paper nothing

350
00:14:41,940 --> 00:14:38,370
about prescriptions or doctor visits

351
00:14:44,010 --> 00:14:41,950
anything like that no interesting well

352
00:14:47,640 --> 00:14:44,020
he certainly seems to be at minimum a

353
00:14:50,190 --> 00:14:47,650
sociopath so he has presumably some type

354
00:14:52,110 --> 00:14:50,200
of psychiatric condition and that's why

355
00:14:53,670 --> 00:14:52,120
I wonder if he had been taking meds and

356
00:14:57,270 --> 00:14:53,680
then he's off his meds that could help

357
00:15:00,660 --> 00:14:57,280
explain you know getting unbalanced in

358
00:15:03,000 --> 00:15:00,670
the suicide kanan mindset so let's let's

359
00:15:05,850 --> 00:15:03,010
talk about so then July 23rd eight five

360
00:15:09,690 --> 00:15:05,860
days after bail is denied is when he

361
00:15:12,120 --> 00:15:09,700
attempts suicide allegedly what is your

362
00:15:16,350 --> 00:15:12,130
guys view was that in fact a suicide

363
00:15:18,690 --> 00:15:16,360
attempts on that day yeah so my

364
00:15:20,370 --> 00:15:18,700
co-author James Robertson he was

365
00:15:22,590 --> 00:15:20,380
actually one of the first people that

366
00:15:24,330 --> 00:15:22,600
reported that on Radar Online and they

367
00:15:25,800 --> 00:15:24,340
got a tip from inside the prison and

368
00:15:28,170 --> 00:15:25,810
were able to confirm it with some people

369
00:15:29,910 --> 00:15:28,180
close to Epstein so we've been really on

370
00:15:31,680 --> 00:15:29,920
top of that from the beginning we found

371
00:15:33,170 --> 00:15:31,690
like I told you somebody that actually

372
00:15:35,430 --> 00:15:33,180
witnessed it

373
00:15:37,460 --> 00:15:35,440
kind of more of the aftermath though

374
00:15:41,610 --> 00:15:37,470
they didn't really see the actual

375
00:15:48,230 --> 00:15:41,620
scuffle I'm personally on the murder

376
00:15:50,340 --> 00:15:48,240
side of things just announced yourself

377
00:15:52,020 --> 00:15:50,350
I'm wearing an app see didn't kill

378
00:15:53,160 --> 00:15:52,030
himself it's like a birth or it's like a

379
00:15:55,860 --> 00:15:53,170
birth or we'll have to come up with a

380
00:15:57,780 --> 00:15:55,870
name through for you guys okay well so

381
00:16:01,770 --> 00:15:57,790
alright so you're on the murder side but

382
00:16:02,780 --> 00:16:01,780
but as as for that event where are you

383
00:16:06,570 --> 00:16:02,790
on that one

384
00:16:08,550 --> 00:16:06,580
what we know for sure is that he did

385
00:16:10,770 --> 00:16:08,560
have markings on his neck he was

386
00:16:13,410 --> 00:16:10,780
involved in some kind of incident he was

387
00:16:15,030 --> 00:16:13,420
definitely out cold when this happened

388
00:16:17,340 --> 00:16:15,040
the person that witnessed it said when

389
00:16:19,350 --> 00:16:17,350
he saw them taking him out his feet and

390
00:16:21,960 --> 00:16:19,360
his face were blue

391
00:16:23,490 --> 00:16:21,970
something happened in there if you lean

392
00:16:25,800 --> 00:16:23,500
towards the murder side like yeah I

393
00:16:28,470 --> 00:16:25,810
think that someone could have been

394
00:16:29,490 --> 00:16:28,480
entered as his cell if it was suicide it

395
00:16:33,840 --> 00:16:29,500
definitely could have been a suicide

396
00:16:35,910 --> 00:16:33,850
attempt but regardless somebody I think

397
00:16:37,920 --> 00:16:35,920
somebody whether it was suicide or

398
00:16:40,200 --> 00:16:37,930
murder someone was involved that wanted

399
00:16:42,690 --> 00:16:40,210
it to happen that wasn't necessarily

400
00:16:45,690 --> 00:16:42,700
Epstein the fact that we just found out

401
00:16:47,100 --> 00:16:45,700
yesterday that the tapes of outside his

402
00:16:50,550 --> 00:16:47,110
cell from that night have suddenly

403
00:16:51,960 --> 00:16:50,560
disappeared you know in the same way of

404
00:16:54,480 --> 00:16:51,970
the suicide there's just too many things

405
00:16:56,910 --> 00:16:54,490
that raise questions if it was a simple

406
00:17:00,660 --> 00:16:56,920
suicide attempt they would have kept the

407
00:17:01,830 --> 00:17:00,670
tapes right moderated xx yeah

408
00:17:03,510 --> 00:17:01,840
coincidentally this just came out

409
00:17:07,160 --> 00:17:03,520
yesterday as I was reading your book and

410
00:17:12,090 --> 00:17:07,170
then I saw this thing come up where the

411
00:17:16,050 --> 00:17:12,100
videotape of his cell which apparently

412
00:17:19,050 --> 00:17:16,060
they had before and I believe people had

413
00:17:21,000 --> 00:17:19,060
watched it so wouldn't we have heard if

414
00:17:23,880 --> 00:17:21,010
that videotape showed something other

415
00:17:25,680 --> 00:17:23,890
than an attempted suicide forget about

416
00:17:28,230 --> 00:17:25,690
whether where it is where it's gone now

417
00:17:30,360 --> 00:17:28,240
yeah up until now the understanding has

418
00:17:32,490 --> 00:17:30,370
been that that videotape showed that it

419
00:17:35,240 --> 00:17:32,500
was suicide mm-hmm I don't know of

420
00:17:37,410 --> 00:17:35,250
anyone in particular that ever saw it

421
00:17:39,960 --> 00:17:37,420
and you know the fact that it's missing

422
00:17:41,340 --> 00:17:39,970
now if you can't I'm sure there's not

423
00:17:43,530 --> 00:17:41,350
one person on earth that didn't roll

424
00:17:45,310 --> 00:17:43,540
their eyes when they heard that it could

425
00:17:47,590 --> 00:17:45,320
go on missing very soon by the

426
00:17:49,269 --> 00:17:47,600
report as of yesterday that it wasn't he

427
00:17:50,919 --> 00:17:49,279
said some prosecutor said you know I'm

428
00:17:52,419 --> 00:17:50,929
not aware of where it is right now so I

429
00:17:55,180 --> 00:17:52,429
don't know how much that's been blown

430
00:17:57,789 --> 00:17:55,190
out but my interesting I'm saying is

431
00:17:59,560 --> 00:17:57,799
that is the the his cellmate which was a

432
00:18:02,590 --> 00:17:59,570
former cop mm-hmm

433
00:18:04,539 --> 00:18:02,600
he's upset he wants that yeah out there

434
00:18:06,090 --> 00:18:04,549
to prove his innocence because he's

435
00:18:09,970 --> 00:18:06,100
basically a hey I'm I'm the one that

436
00:18:12,580 --> 00:18:09,980
that called for help yeah how much time

437
00:18:14,409 --> 00:18:12,590
was it between the time that Epstein

438
00:18:16,360 --> 00:18:14,419
would have theoretically either been

439
00:18:19,210 --> 00:18:16,370
attempted the attempted murder or the

440
00:18:20,680 --> 00:18:19,220
attempted suicide and him the cellmate

441
00:18:22,659 --> 00:18:20,690
called for help you know it was just

442
00:18:24,549 --> 00:18:22,669
moments that's the witness told us that

443
00:18:26,680 --> 00:18:24,559
it was he heard some kind of a scuffle

444
00:18:28,690 --> 00:18:26,690
and the guards in that case actually did

445
00:18:29,860 --> 00:18:28,700
they weren't asleep that time they

446
00:18:31,840 --> 00:18:29,870
actually made it over to the South

447
00:18:33,369 --> 00:18:31,850
pretty quickly and the witness that you

448
00:18:35,470 --> 00:18:33,379
guys were the ones they'd interviewed

449
00:18:36,999 --> 00:18:35,480
he's the one that says that he thinks it

450
00:18:39,549 --> 00:18:37,009
was a suicide he has no reason to

451
00:18:41,799 --> 00:18:39,559
believe it was the cop no he does

452
00:18:43,899 --> 00:18:41,809
actually think that the guards were

453
00:18:46,690 --> 00:18:43,909
somehow involved that it was more of an

454
00:18:48,999 --> 00:18:46,700
attack of or murder he says that in the

455
00:18:51,940 --> 00:18:49,009
weeks leading up to this the way of the

456
00:18:53,289 --> 00:18:51,950
guards treated Epstein was really kind

457
00:18:55,690 --> 00:18:53,299
of out of the norm obviously they're

458
00:18:57,190 --> 00:18:55,700
never they don't make best friends with

459
00:18:58,869 --> 00:18:57,200
people that are in the prison but he

460
00:19:02,259 --> 00:18:58,879
said the way that they treated him was

461
00:19:05,830 --> 00:19:02,269
just like a whole other level of disgust

462
00:19:07,629 --> 00:19:05,840
and disdain and he thinks that they had

463
00:19:09,940 --> 00:19:07,639
something to do with it that they eat

464
00:19:13,019 --> 00:19:09,950
their allowed somebody else to let this

465
00:19:15,490 --> 00:19:13,029
happen or actively participated in that

466
00:19:18,159 --> 00:19:15,500
hmm okay well I just read the book

467
00:19:20,350 --> 00:19:18,169
yesterday as I I thought for sure that

468
00:19:21,970 --> 00:19:20,360
you guys in the book maybe someone else

469
00:19:24,490 --> 00:19:21,980
was responsible for that part was saying

470
00:19:25,869 --> 00:19:24,500
that the witness had no reason to

471
00:19:30,460 --> 00:19:25,879
believe certainly not that the cop did

472
00:19:32,799 --> 00:19:30,470
it see he certainly didn't see anybody

473
00:19:35,769 --> 00:19:32,809
like enter the cell and he's on the same

474
00:19:37,419 --> 00:19:35,779
block so he didn't see like a person

475
00:19:40,419 --> 00:19:37,429
dressed in black walked down the hallway

476
00:19:42,129 --> 00:19:40,429
and go into his room and by the way

477
00:19:44,710 --> 00:19:42,139
we've got cameras all throughout that

478
00:19:47,169 --> 00:19:44,720
prison granted some of them perhaps

479
00:19:48,549 --> 00:19:47,179
don't work as we've learned but you got

480
00:19:51,039 --> 00:19:48,559
a bunch of others so you're gonna see

481
00:19:53,289 --> 00:19:51,049
somebody walking around and you're also

482
00:19:55,060 --> 00:19:53,299
gonna have some evidence you would think

483
00:19:56,440 --> 00:19:55,070
usually you know when there's a crime

484
00:19:58,470 --> 00:19:56,450
committed that involves another party

485
00:20:02,900 --> 00:19:58,480
you've got figure Princeton

486
00:20:06,240 --> 00:20:02,910
than that so we really have no evidence

487
00:20:08,880 --> 00:20:06,250
that this was an attempted murder

488
00:20:11,010 --> 00:20:08,890
we have speculation and saying that og

489
00:20:12,330 --> 00:20:11,020
guards didn't like him and og this seems

490
00:20:12,960 --> 00:20:12,340
weird to me that he would attempt

491
00:20:14,820 --> 00:20:12,970
suicide

492
00:20:16,920 --> 00:20:14,830
you have speculation like that but first

493
00:20:21,060 --> 00:20:16,930
evidence no really none

494
00:20:24,840 --> 00:20:21,070
no and no I witnessed details it's more

495
00:20:28,260 --> 00:20:24,850
like this is Dylan's perspective that he

496
00:20:32,370 --> 00:20:28,270
was allowed to commit suicide that you

497
00:20:34,080 --> 00:20:32,380
know they look to the other way for four

498
00:20:36,300 --> 00:20:34,090
reasons and it might have been as simple

499
00:20:38,640 --> 00:20:36,310
as they didn't like him but at the end

500
00:20:41,520 --> 00:20:38,650
of the day it is Occam's razor the

501
00:20:42,230 --> 00:20:41,530
simplest explanation that he did commit

502
00:20:49,350 --> 00:20:42,240
suicide

503
00:20:51,660 --> 00:20:49,360
attempted yeah yeah yeah so in that one

504
00:20:53,940 --> 00:20:51,670
I think it's it's the second one it

505
00:20:55,320 --> 00:20:53,950
seems like it's easier to argue for an

506
00:20:56,520 --> 00:20:55,330
attempted murder because you don't have

507
00:20:58,320 --> 00:20:56,530
the cameras and you've got the sleeping

508
00:20:59,850 --> 00:20:58,330
guards whereas I'm the first one you've

509
00:21:01,170 --> 00:20:59,860
got cards responding right away you've

510
00:21:04,980 --> 00:21:01,180
got the witness you got the guy in the

511
00:21:07,860 --> 00:21:04,990
cell but the problem is for murder

512
00:21:10,440 --> 00:21:07,870
theorists it's that if he attempted

513
00:21:12,960 --> 00:21:10,450
suicide the first time it makes it all

514
00:21:14,910 --> 00:21:12,970
the more likely that in fact the second

515
00:21:16,470 --> 00:21:14,920
one was suicide because now you're

516
00:21:18,060 --> 00:21:16,480
talking about a real coincidence that

517
00:21:19,530 --> 00:21:18,070
okay he tried to kill himself the first

518
00:21:24,060 --> 00:21:19,540
time then was murdered the second time

519
00:21:30,960 --> 00:21:24,070
yeah a little out there for you guys on

520
00:21:31,950 --> 00:21:30,970
the book together we have kind of

521
00:21:34,680 --> 00:21:31,960
different views on it

522
00:21:38,580 --> 00:21:34,690
so okay so then the next event that I've

523
00:21:42,270 --> 00:21:38,590
got is he goes into suicide watch and

524
00:21:43,830 --> 00:21:42,280
comes off of it only six days later if

525
00:21:46,380 --> 00:21:43,840
I've got my dates all right

526
00:21:47,580 --> 00:21:46,390
23rd is the suicide attempt and he goes

527
00:21:50,670 --> 00:21:47,590
and suicide watch and they take them off

528
00:21:53,640 --> 00:21:50,680
on the 29th but when you're on suicide

529
00:21:55,290 --> 00:21:53,650
watch that sounds to me like very

530
00:21:58,920 --> 00:21:55,300
unpleasant you're in a cellar by

531
00:22:01,980 --> 00:21:58,930
yourself and it's extremely bare what

532
00:22:03,420 --> 00:22:01,990
they allow to be in there um and I think

533
00:22:05,220 --> 00:22:03,430
you guys even talk in the book about

534
00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:05,230
there you know this prison being rat

535
00:22:11,370 --> 00:22:07,450
infested etc and in that section of the

536
00:22:12,169 --> 00:22:11,380
suicide watch area is really a place you

537
00:22:14,389 --> 00:22:12,179
don't want to be

538
00:22:17,810 --> 00:22:14,399
that really dragged up steam down but

539
00:22:19,850 --> 00:22:17,820
talk about that right right so this you

540
00:22:22,789 --> 00:22:19,860
know as if prison could get any worse it

541
00:22:26,060 --> 00:22:22,799
does in this kind of suicide watch area

542
00:22:28,159 --> 00:22:26,070
like you said those cells are extremely

543
00:22:30,320 --> 00:22:28,169
bare the sheets that they give them are

544
00:22:31,879 --> 00:22:30,330
essentially like paper towels you know

545
00:22:32,869 --> 00:22:31,889
because they would just rip if you tried

546
00:22:35,149 --> 00:22:32,879
to hang yourself

547
00:22:36,680 --> 00:22:35,159
um so everything that we've heard from

548
00:22:39,230 --> 00:22:36,690
inside the prison and people close to

549
00:22:41,570 --> 00:22:39,240
abstain was that he he and his legal

550
00:22:43,999 --> 00:22:41,580
team were involved in getting him off on

551
00:22:46,639 --> 00:22:44,009
suicide watch because like you said it

552
00:22:48,769 --> 00:22:46,649
was so you know it was so difficult for

553
00:22:53,149 --> 00:22:48,779
him to bear especially from where he's

554
00:22:55,580 --> 00:22:53,159
come from in his life so that that part

555
00:22:57,680 --> 00:22:55,590
doesn't necessarily seem nefarious like

556
00:22:59,810 --> 00:22:57,690
that the guards were actively trying to

557
00:23:02,269 --> 00:22:59,820
get him back into the general population

558
00:23:04,159 --> 00:23:02,279
I think everything points to his team

559
00:23:05,899 --> 00:23:04,169
just you know if you him saying I don't

560
00:23:06,560 --> 00:23:05,909
want to I can't deal with this like get

561
00:23:08,779 --> 00:23:06,570
me out of here

562
00:23:11,779 --> 00:23:08,789
you know well in and there could be a

563
00:23:15,619 --> 00:23:11,789
general indifference to suicide in that

564
00:23:17,419 --> 00:23:15,629
prison as far as you guys make a number

565
00:23:20,509 --> 00:23:17,429
of points a lot of evidence that the

566
00:23:22,669 --> 00:23:20,519
guards disliked him um probably because

567
00:23:23,810 --> 00:23:22,679
he's an alleged pedophile also he was

568
00:23:26,239 --> 00:23:23,820
trying to curry favor with other

569
00:23:29,259 --> 00:23:26,249
prisoners etcetera so somehow he got on

570
00:23:32,090 --> 00:23:29,269
the [\h__\h] list of of the guards Wow and

571
00:23:33,950 --> 00:23:32,100
presumably they don't care if he kills

572
00:23:36,980 --> 00:23:33,960
himself or not they probably were

573
00:23:40,970 --> 00:23:36,990
celebrating his his suicide or alleged

574
00:23:43,070 --> 00:23:40,980
suicide just as frankly I did I I'm kind

575
00:23:44,810 --> 00:23:43,080
of a different view than some as far as

576
00:23:46,129 --> 00:23:44,820
being so upset that we're not gonna have

577
00:23:47,570 --> 00:23:46,139
her day in court and so on and you know

578
00:23:50,419 --> 00:23:47,580
Who am I to speak on that I mean it's

579
00:23:53,450 --> 00:23:50,429
the victims day in court but you know if

580
00:23:56,570 --> 00:23:53,460
I look back in the OJ case a attempted

581
00:23:58,489 --> 00:23:56,580
suicide or was suicidal at least I wish

582
00:23:59,930 --> 00:23:58,499
he had committed suicide instead of

583
00:24:01,730 --> 00:23:59,940
subjecting everybody to what we got to

584
00:24:03,499 --> 00:24:01,740
be subjected to and there was no

585
00:24:04,850 --> 00:24:03,509
guarantee we were gonna convict Epstein

586
00:24:07,820 --> 00:24:04,860
because he was gonna have the dream-team

587
00:24:09,529 --> 00:24:07,830
times 10 know the fact that he's dead in

588
00:24:11,570 --> 00:24:09,539
my opinion is a good thing I celebrate

589
00:24:12,950 --> 00:24:11,580
that so in and I think it's very

590
00:24:15,919 --> 00:24:12,960
possible the prison guards felt the same

591
00:24:17,720 --> 00:24:15,929
way yeah completely um you know I feel

592
00:24:20,419 --> 00:24:17,730
the same way too I don't think that

593
00:24:22,310 --> 00:24:20,429
there was any like guarantee that he was

594
00:24:24,090 --> 00:24:22,320
going to suddenly reveal all of his

595
00:24:27,120 --> 00:24:24,100
powerful co-conspirators

596
00:24:29,370 --> 00:24:27,130
the world like that's not him at all

597
00:24:32,220 --> 00:24:29,380
but yeah even if the carts weren't

598
00:24:34,169 --> 00:24:32,230
actively involved in like giving him a

599
00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:34,179
noose or like letting in a killer or

600
00:24:37,620 --> 00:24:35,770
something like that they didn't like him

601
00:24:39,180 --> 00:24:37,630
the rest of the prisoners didn't really

602
00:24:41,010 --> 00:24:39,190
like him they were sick of having his

603
00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:41,020
team come in there take up the

604
00:24:44,100 --> 00:24:42,730
conference room all day long like you

605
00:24:46,169 --> 00:24:44,110
know they just rolled their eyes at it

606
00:24:47,700 --> 00:24:46,179
like here's this billionaire padding

607
00:24:50,159 --> 00:24:47,710
around and his slippers and having his

608
00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:50,169
lawyers come in every day and like take

609
00:24:54,150 --> 00:24:51,490
up the room that other people want to

610
00:24:56,820 --> 00:24:54,160
use and you know there was definitely

611
00:24:58,409 --> 00:24:56,830
like I said more if they don't like the

612
00:25:00,510 --> 00:24:58,419
prisoners in general this was like a

613
00:25:02,970 --> 00:25:00,520
higher degree of it for so many reasons

614
00:25:05,279 --> 00:25:02,980
like you mentioned and then talking

615
00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:05,289
about the spiraling down I think you

616
00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:07,690
guys wrote that when he was in the

617
00:25:12,390 --> 00:25:10,330
suicide watch he was found like sleeping

618
00:25:15,120 --> 00:25:12,400
on the floor and this kind of exhibiting

619
00:25:17,159 --> 00:25:15,130
strange behavior yeah yeah and that's

620
00:25:19,350 --> 00:25:17,169
that kind of like started at the bail

621
00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:19,360
hearing like that was the first time

622
00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:22,330
anyone saw him kind of looking Dazed and

623
00:25:26,610 --> 00:25:23,890
Confused not in control of the situation

624
00:25:27,120 --> 00:25:26,620
and yeah that's if I got my dates

625
00:25:29,789 --> 00:25:27,130
correct

626
00:25:32,690 --> 00:25:29,799
so 29th he's taken off the suicide watch

627
00:25:35,399 --> 00:25:32,700
and then on the 31st there was a hearing

628
00:25:37,590 --> 00:25:35,409
where many people reported him looking

629
00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:37,600
totally out of it yeah that whole period

630
00:25:43,350 --> 00:25:41,010
he was just acting like definitely a

631
00:25:45,180 --> 00:25:43,360
different person and looking liked it

632
00:25:47,940 --> 00:25:45,190
too you know he's always been very like

633
00:25:50,039 --> 00:25:47,950
assured of himself and kind of he used

634
00:25:51,419 --> 00:25:50,049
to smirk in the face of justice you know

635
00:25:53,940 --> 00:25:51,429
when he had those depositions back in

636
00:25:57,029 --> 00:25:53,950
the early 2000s he was laughing the

637
00:25:58,320 --> 00:25:57,039
prosecutors but certainly in that time

638
00:26:01,919 --> 00:25:58,330
period that you're talking about the

639
00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:01,929
spiral he totally transformed at least

640
00:26:05,909 --> 00:26:03,730
externally so you can only imagine what

641
00:26:12,539 --> 00:26:05,919
was happening to him internally at that

642
00:26:15,570 --> 00:26:12,549
time so on the that's on the 31st that

643
00:26:20,760 --> 00:26:15,580
he looks totally out of it and then on

644
00:26:21,590 --> 00:26:20,770
the 8th he updates his will mm-hmm what

645
00:26:25,860 --> 00:26:21,600
do we know about that

646
00:26:27,630 --> 00:26:25,870
so what's he updates his will puts

647
00:26:29,190 --> 00:26:27,640
everything into a trust puts his brother

648
00:26:31,980 --> 00:26:29,200
as kind of the head of the trust this

649
00:26:33,780 --> 00:26:31,990
protects the money from any of the

650
00:26:36,390 --> 00:26:33,790
victims kind of doing civil cases

651
00:26:37,590 --> 00:26:36,400
against him but what's also super

652
00:26:40,100 --> 00:26:37,600
interesting is that the

653
00:26:42,840 --> 00:26:40,110
knees that are the trustees of this will

654
00:26:45,900 --> 00:26:42,850
they have a really long history with

655
00:26:48,270 --> 00:26:45,910
Epstein that goes back to the 90s when

656
00:26:50,549 --> 00:26:48,280
he was involved in the major Ponzi

657
00:26:52,140 --> 00:26:50,559
scheme with Towers Financial Group that

658
00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:52,150
was exposed his partner went to prison

659
00:26:56,820 --> 00:26:54,850
for 25 years and Epstein got off these

660
00:26:58,500 --> 00:26:56,830
two guys were the investigators of that

661
00:27:00,960 --> 00:26:58,510
investigation that let Epstein get off

662
00:27:02,850 --> 00:27:00,970
at that point so ever since them they've

663
00:27:04,020 --> 00:27:02,860
been really closely tied together and he

664
00:27:06,900 --> 00:27:04,030
actually ended up making them the

665
00:27:10,110 --> 00:27:06,910
executor of his well along with another

666
00:27:12,270 --> 00:27:10,120
guy who I forget his name up the top of

667
00:27:14,789 --> 00:27:12,280
my head at something really unusual he's

668
00:27:16,140 --> 00:27:14,799
connected to Microsoft and Bill Gates

669
00:27:18,620 --> 00:27:16,150
and worked with Bill Gates for really a

670
00:27:21,390 --> 00:27:18,630
long time he was added as a backup

671
00:27:23,850 --> 00:27:21,400
executor and this guy came out

672
00:27:26,220 --> 00:27:23,860
afterwards and was like I have no idea

673
00:27:27,570 --> 00:27:26,230
why he put me on this document

674
00:27:29,039 --> 00:27:27,580
I didn't even barely know the guy I

675
00:27:31,710 --> 00:27:29,049
don't want this take me off this

676
00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:31,720
document but that raises another

677
00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:33,250
question that we talked about in the

678
00:27:38,669 --> 00:27:35,770
book in terms of his connections with

679
00:27:41,940 --> 00:27:38,679
Bill Gates and who he actually wanted to

680
00:27:44,580 --> 00:27:41,950
get this money his brother now is kind

681
00:27:45,690 --> 00:27:44,590
of the head of it and you know it's it's

682
00:27:47,549 --> 00:27:45,700
so strange we haven't heard that much

683
00:27:50,159 --> 00:27:47,559
from his brother throughout the years

684
00:27:52,799 --> 00:27:50,169
despite all this he has money himself

685
00:27:55,799 --> 00:27:52,809
but he started to come out a little bit

686
00:27:58,110 --> 00:27:55,809
more now in terms of claiming that it

687
00:28:00,899 --> 00:27:58,120
was a murder thing and we don't even

688
00:28:03,210 --> 00:28:00,909
know like did he have a major insurance

689
00:28:04,919 --> 00:28:03,220
policy that would let his family get

690
00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:04,929
more money if it was murder versus

691
00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:07,330
suicide like that's another possibility

692
00:28:13,110 --> 00:28:09,690
that we're still trying to figure out

693
00:28:16,820 --> 00:28:13,120
but again like you're saying is it a

694
00:28:19,649 --> 00:28:16,830
coincidence that the day before he

695
00:28:22,250 --> 00:28:19,659
suicided he gets suicided or commits

696
00:28:25,529 --> 00:28:22,260
suicide that he changes well like that

697
00:28:27,659 --> 00:28:25,539
you know it certainly would be a huge

698
00:28:32,279 --> 00:28:27,669
coincidence that the timing worked out

699
00:28:36,299 --> 00:28:32,289
right so yeah the brother hires Michael

700
00:28:39,210 --> 00:28:36,309
Baden to stand in at the autopsy right

701
00:28:42,690 --> 00:28:39,220
right and Baden who we know from the OJ

702
00:28:48,090 --> 00:28:42,700
case so willing to do work for OJ and

703
00:28:50,490 --> 00:28:48,100
for Epstein and the original coroner's

704
00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:50,500
report said that it was suicide

705
00:28:53,790 --> 00:28:51,170
even

706
00:28:56,710 --> 00:28:53,800
though it acknowledged that some of the

707
00:28:59,320 --> 00:28:56,720
one or more of the bones that bones that

708
00:29:00,760 --> 00:28:59,330
broken his neck was not always

709
00:29:03,670 --> 00:29:00,770
consistent with suicide could be more

710
00:29:05,920 --> 00:29:03,680
consistent with homicide it seems like

711
00:29:10,150 --> 00:29:05,930
bond Baden really took that and ran with

712
00:29:13,300 --> 00:29:10,160
it and saw the same things and said that

713
00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:13,310
tells the suicide I mean a homicide on

714
00:29:17,980 --> 00:29:15,890
completing homicide yeah so autopsies

715
00:29:20,290 --> 00:29:17,990
and death reports it's really tricky

716
00:29:22,270 --> 00:29:20,300
because no matter how great the medical

717
00:29:23,650 --> 00:29:22,280
examiner is it's always an opinion like

718
00:29:26,590 --> 00:29:23,660
they're taking these pieces of evidence

719
00:29:29,110 --> 00:29:26,600
and basically saying what they think

720
00:29:31,330 --> 00:29:29,120
happened based on that so from person to

721
00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:31,340
person even in cases that are not as

722
00:29:36,940 --> 00:29:33,290
contentious as this you're gonna have

723
00:29:40,090 --> 00:29:36,950
differences of opinion and what was

724
00:29:43,030 --> 00:29:40,100
really like kind of added to the mystery

725
00:29:45,700 --> 00:29:43,040
surrounding that so was that the medical

726
00:29:47,860 --> 00:29:45,710
examiner's in New York do not release a

727
00:29:49,660 --> 00:29:47,870
copy of the autopsy to the family before

728
00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:49,670
they announce the results of it and

729
00:29:54,310 --> 00:29:52,730
that's actually really unusual um Bannen

730
00:29:55,480 --> 00:29:54,320
and other sources close to the family at

731
00:29:57,850 --> 00:29:55,490
the time told us that like they were

732
00:29:59,860 --> 00:29:57,860
having a really hard time getting the

733
00:30:03,010 --> 00:29:59,870
actual documents and the report from the

734
00:30:05,110 --> 00:30:03,020
autopsy and so that added a little bit

735
00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:05,120
to the suspicion I think like why in

736
00:30:11,440 --> 00:30:09,290
this one case did they not you know make

737
00:30:13,570 --> 00:30:11,450
the records public did were they trying

738
00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:13,580
to hide information from the family that

739
00:30:18,100 --> 00:30:15,770
kind of you know adds fuel to the fire

740
00:30:19,210 --> 00:30:18,110
in terms of the other argument but it

741
00:30:21,220 --> 00:30:19,220
could have also just found that they

742
00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:21,230
wanted to get the results out to the

743
00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:23,090
public in terms of the death reports

744
00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:25,370
since it was a case of like huge

745
00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:28,010
interest in what public what public

746
00:30:34,150 --> 00:30:31,370
statements has the brother made about

747
00:30:36,850 --> 00:30:34,160
the death and about him his belief that

748
00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:36,860
he was murdered as opposed to suicide he

749
00:30:41,470 --> 00:30:38,690
came out pretty recently and an

750
00:30:43,480 --> 00:30:41,480
interview I forget the outlet but he did

751
00:30:46,060 --> 00:30:43,490
a short interview and basically said he

752
00:30:47,470 --> 00:30:46,070
does not believe that his brother would

753
00:30:50,230 --> 00:30:47,480
have committed suicide that it was

754
00:30:52,570 --> 00:30:50,240
entirely out of character for him that

755
00:30:56,710 --> 00:30:52,580
they want more of an investigation into

756
00:30:58,690 --> 00:30:56,720
what actually happened you know I don't

757
00:31:00,340 --> 00:30:58,700
really know that that's true that they

758
00:31:03,550 --> 00:31:00,350
want a deeper investigation into his

759
00:31:04,840 --> 00:31:03,560
brother's life on the public scale you

760
00:31:09,010 --> 00:31:04,850
know you have to ask

761
00:31:10,690 --> 00:31:09,020
why he after decades of not commenting

762
00:31:14,140 --> 00:31:10,700
on his brother why suddenly now is he

763
00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:14,150
coming out and you know pushing the

764
00:31:17,860 --> 00:31:16,130
narrative that he was murdered again

765
00:31:20,140 --> 00:31:17,870
like I said maybe it's an insurance

766
00:31:23,980 --> 00:31:20,150
thing maybe there's like a deeper play

767
00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:23,990
happening here he wants to cover up the

768
00:31:29,620 --> 00:31:26,810
suicide or something like that but it's

769
00:31:31,870 --> 00:31:29,630
really weird to first hear from him in

770
00:31:35,530 --> 00:31:31,880
all of these cases now after the brother

771
00:31:38,500 --> 00:31:35,540
has done so if you're on the murder side

772
00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:38,510
of things you have to at least piece

773
00:31:45,460 --> 00:31:42,410
together a plausible Marit narrative as

774
00:31:47,500 --> 00:31:45,470
to how this occurred without leaving any

775
00:31:49,330 --> 00:31:47,510
trace of evidence behind essentially so

776
00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:49,340
walk us through what your potential

777
00:31:54,670 --> 00:31:52,490
theory would be as to how he was

778
00:31:57,220 --> 00:31:54,680
murdered on that day as opposed to it's

779
00:31:59,530 --> 00:31:57,230
a tall order maybe it's a little bit

780
00:32:02,710 --> 00:31:59,540
more murder agnostic I think there's

781
00:32:05,260 --> 00:32:02,720
still more information that we need but

782
00:32:06,790 --> 00:32:05,270
I do think that it would have been

783
00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:06,800
possible for somebody to enter the

784
00:32:11,260 --> 00:32:09,170
prison on that night given the fact that

785
00:32:13,060 --> 00:32:11,270
the guards were asleep the tapes are

786
00:32:15,070 --> 00:32:13,070
destroyed if there was any other kind of

787
00:32:16,570 --> 00:32:15,080
evidence in the prison I'm sure it would

788
00:32:22,150 --> 00:32:16,580
have been destroyed just like the tapes

789
00:32:25,780 --> 00:32:22,160
have been you know the way that he was

790
00:32:27,190 --> 00:32:25,790
found strangled whether that was by

791
00:32:30,010 --> 00:32:27,200
suicide or someone else like you

792
00:32:32,170 --> 00:32:30,020
mentioned a lot of the physical things

793
00:32:34,330 --> 00:32:32,180
that came on the autopsy can also point

794
00:32:36,910 --> 00:32:34,340
to more towards strangulation so he

795
00:32:38,920 --> 00:32:36,920
broke the hyoid bone in his neck he had

796
00:32:41,080 --> 00:32:38,930
a hemorrhage 'as both of those things

797
00:32:44,110 --> 00:32:41,090
like can be from a suicide but not

798
00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:44,120
usually suicides from such a low angle

799
00:32:49,510 --> 00:32:46,970
as he was so he supposedly hung himself

800
00:32:52,120 --> 00:32:49,520
off his bed by like leaning forward the

801
00:32:54,490 --> 00:32:52,130
impact and force of that kind of a

802
00:32:56,410 --> 00:32:54,500
hanging doesn't usually produce the

803
00:33:00,190 --> 00:32:56,420
serious results that they found in the

804
00:33:02,140 --> 00:33:00,200
autopsy well an attorney general bar has

805
00:33:04,600 --> 00:33:02,150
ordered an investigation into the whole

806
00:33:05,860 --> 00:33:04,610
whole thing right I don't know how you

807
00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:05,870
know part of it of course is we know

808
00:33:10,780 --> 00:33:07,490
that the guards are being charged with

809
00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:10,790
falsifying reports you guys also make a

810
00:33:14,380 --> 00:33:12,170
good point in the book about how one

811
00:33:16,180 --> 00:33:14,390
guard apparently had worked an 80 hour

812
00:33:18,130 --> 00:33:16,190
shift that week and the other one was

813
00:33:18,799 --> 00:33:18,140
picking up extra shifts so this idea

814
00:33:21,649 --> 00:33:18,809
that they fell

815
00:33:23,299 --> 00:33:21,659
sleep is kind of believable considering

816
00:33:25,330 --> 00:33:23,309
you know the hours they had been working

817
00:33:28,789 --> 00:33:25,340
in considering I would say you can't

818
00:33:30,110 --> 00:33:28,799
overestimate the incompetence of federal

819
00:33:31,970 --> 00:33:30,120
federal employees especially at a

820
00:33:34,879 --> 00:33:31,980
prisons and in the time that they were

821
00:33:37,820 --> 00:33:34,889
sleeping was essentially you know 3 a.m.

822
00:33:40,460 --> 00:33:37,830
to 6 a.m. so not the easiest time to

823
00:33:41,659 --> 00:33:40,470
stay awake especially you know you're

824
00:33:43,700 --> 00:33:41,669
supposed to watch an Epstein but if they

825
00:33:45,739 --> 00:33:43,710
don't really care about Epstein you know

826
00:33:49,940 --> 00:33:45,749
he's in a Cell and the end of killing

827
00:33:52,129 --> 00:33:49,950
himself you know yeah I mean it's true

828
00:33:53,419 --> 00:33:52,139
that we don't really know what happens

829
00:33:55,159 --> 00:33:53,429
every day in prisons maybe they're

830
00:33:58,489 --> 00:33:55,169
sleeping every night and we don't know

831
00:34:02,299 --> 00:33:58,499
that but I'm super skeptical about the

832
00:34:03,919 --> 00:34:02,309
bar investigation you know I wonder I

833
00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:03,929
questioned a lot why haven't these

834
00:34:08,030 --> 00:34:06,210
guards come forward at all you know

835
00:34:09,770 --> 00:34:08,040
these are like minimum wage employees

836
00:34:12,020 --> 00:34:09,780
and the type of people that in other

837
00:34:13,970 --> 00:34:12,030
cases usually run to outlets like the

838
00:34:15,950 --> 00:34:13,980
New York Post or the National Enquirer

839
00:34:18,950 --> 00:34:15,960
to talk about what actually happened

840
00:34:21,139 --> 00:34:18,960
it's really strange to me that somehow

841
00:34:24,470 --> 00:34:21,149
they've managed to kind of push these

842
00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:24,480
people below the radar and you know put

843
00:34:30,139 --> 00:34:26,010
a lid on the whole thing in terms of

844
00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:30,149
federal witnesses so that that's really

845
00:34:33,710 --> 00:34:31,770
weird that that's happening the

846
00:34:35,930 --> 00:34:33,720
destroyed evidence you know obviously

847
00:34:39,050 --> 00:34:35,940
this is more unlike the conspiracy side

848
00:34:41,329 --> 00:34:39,060
but bill Barr has long connections have

849
00:34:43,970 --> 00:34:41,339
seen his dad was a part of the team that

850
00:34:46,639 --> 00:34:43,980
hired Epstein at the doulton school way

851
00:34:48,440 --> 00:34:46,649
back in the 70s so you know that's

852
00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:48,450
something that conspiracist pick up on a

853
00:34:53,389 --> 00:34:50,970
lot but personally I think the whole

854
00:34:57,470 --> 00:34:53,399
like we're gonna do an investigation

855
00:34:59,210 --> 00:34:57,480
press conference was just all for show

856
00:35:01,250 --> 00:34:59,220
and I think they're hoping that it's

857
00:35:04,579 --> 00:35:01,260
just gonna die over which in some ways

858
00:35:06,050 --> 00:35:04,589
it is you know as this gets older and

859
00:35:07,550 --> 00:35:06,060
older there's fewer and fewer people

860
00:35:09,260 --> 00:35:07,560
that are pointing out on the front page

861
00:35:11,319 --> 00:35:09,270
just people like you and me that are

862
00:35:14,510 --> 00:35:11,329
still trying to figure out what happened

863
00:35:17,180 --> 00:35:14,520
yeah well we'll put a wager down on it

864
00:35:18,710 --> 00:35:17,190
your figure out what that is and see

865
00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:18,720
what we also include although I'm sure

866
00:35:31,650 --> 00:35:30,200
so the other meet you know the major

867
00:35:34,470 --> 00:35:31,660
thing you guys assert is

868
00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:34,480
that he in fact was running a blackmail

869
00:35:43,200 --> 00:35:38,170
scheme presumably for Mossad that he

870
00:35:48,270 --> 00:35:43,210
connected with Jelena is that you

871
00:35:49,920 --> 00:35:48,280
pronounce it going Gill aim that he make

872
00:35:52,770 --> 00:35:49,930
meets ghilane through her he meets her

873
00:35:56,609 --> 00:35:52,780
father Robert Maxwell who you know we've

874
00:35:59,010 --> 00:35:56,619
interviewed Dylan on the show who says

875
00:36:01,079 --> 00:35:59,020
that he absolutely was Mossad Bob and

876
00:36:03,809 --> 00:36:01,089
and that connects Epstein into that

877
00:36:05,579 --> 00:36:03,819
world right and that's all in the book

878
00:36:07,289 --> 00:36:05,589
and I highly recommend people check out

879
00:36:08,640 --> 00:36:07,299
the book what a question I had is if he

880
00:36:10,170 --> 00:36:08,650
was running a blackmail scheme and all

881
00:36:14,279 --> 00:36:10,180
the evidence that's been collected

882
00:36:16,559 --> 00:36:14,289
has there been evidence that he was

883
00:36:19,970 --> 00:36:16,569
running a blackmail scheme and for

884
00:36:24,170 --> 00:36:19,980
instance you know video of mm-hmm famous

885
00:36:27,270 --> 00:36:24,180
powerful men with girls certainly yeah

886
00:36:30,150 --> 00:36:27,280
we starting with like in terms of

887
00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:30,160
setting up the scene we personally seen

888
00:36:36,359 --> 00:36:32,890
evidence that he read all his homes for

889
00:36:37,890 --> 00:36:36,369
this so one in Palm Beach it's all in

890
00:36:39,359 --> 00:36:37,900
the police report from the first raid

891
00:36:42,089 --> 00:36:39,369
that he had cameras hidden throughout

892
00:36:44,069 --> 00:36:42,099
that property in like clocks or like in

893
00:36:46,170 --> 00:36:44,079
a desk facing out to the room like his

894
00:36:48,450 --> 00:36:46,180
whole home there was rigged with this

895
00:36:50,670 --> 00:36:48,460
hidden surveillance system and the

896
00:36:52,410 --> 00:36:50,680
central computer that housed all that

897
00:36:54,809 --> 00:36:52,420
was missing when they did the raid so

898
00:36:58,529 --> 00:36:54,819
then in New York most people haven't

899
00:36:59,670 --> 00:36:58,539
even seen inside of that property in

900
00:37:01,980 --> 00:36:59,680
terms of journalists I don't think

901
00:37:03,990 --> 00:37:01,990
anybody has unless they were you know

902
00:37:07,529 --> 00:37:04,000
like invited George Stephanopoulos

903
00:37:10,170 --> 00:37:07,539
invited to dinner but I've seen hundreds

904
00:37:12,690 --> 00:37:10,180
of photos from inside that house and he

905
00:37:16,349 --> 00:37:12,700
had a room there that was rigged with

906
00:37:18,029 --> 00:37:16,359
like eight monitors showing surveillance

907
00:37:20,640 --> 00:37:18,039
from all over the property and maybe

908
00:37:22,140 --> 00:37:20,650
that's not too strange for somebody

909
00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:22,150
that's really rich and has a big home

910
00:37:29,010 --> 00:37:24,970
but what was really strange is that he

911
00:37:31,710 --> 00:37:29,020
had a massive professional grade printer

912
00:37:33,930 --> 00:37:31,720
large format printer hooked up to the

913
00:37:35,640 --> 00:37:33,940
surveillance system and a couple of

914
00:37:38,370 --> 00:37:35,650
other smaller ones hooked up to that so

915
00:37:40,980 --> 00:37:38,380
I've never seen anybody that had like a

916
00:37:43,349 --> 00:37:40,990
typical surveillance camera with a

917
00:37:45,460 --> 00:37:43,359
little guard there having this whole

918
00:37:47,740 --> 00:37:45,470
other piece to like print out records of

919
00:37:49,839 --> 00:37:47,750
what they see on their and then we know

920
00:37:52,750 --> 00:37:49,849
that when that happy I raided that home

921
00:37:54,099 --> 00:37:52,760
they found thousands of photos some of

922
00:37:57,370 --> 00:37:54,109
which they said were sexually suggestive

923
00:37:58,839 --> 00:37:57,380
so I wanted to ask you specifically

924
00:38:00,370 --> 00:37:58,849
about what was found as far as photos

925
00:38:02,020 --> 00:38:00,380
because I read these reports and

926
00:38:04,180 --> 00:38:02,030
including your book that photos of

927
00:38:06,430 --> 00:38:04,190
underage girls were found for mr. photos

928
00:38:09,070 --> 00:38:06,440
etc but was anything found with it was

929
00:38:10,930 --> 00:38:09,080
the guy in the picture oh there's this

930
00:38:14,260 --> 00:38:10,940
guy we mentioned the book John mark

931
00:38:15,609 --> 00:38:14,270
Dugan who was a sheriff's deputy in Palm

932
00:38:19,210 --> 00:38:15,619
Beach when that investigation was going

933
00:38:21,180 --> 00:38:19,220
on and he says that he obtained the

934
00:38:24,250 --> 00:38:21,190
actual blackmail files that were

935
00:38:26,500 --> 00:38:24,260
recovered in that investigation that he

936
00:38:29,950 --> 00:38:26,510
took those and he's now living in Russia

937
00:38:31,570 --> 00:38:29,960
so he's yeah well for sure he's on my

938
00:38:33,130 --> 00:38:31,580
list of things I wanted to cover with

939
00:38:35,800 --> 00:38:33,140
you because I want to be really

940
00:38:38,250 --> 00:38:35,810
interesting side stories yeah I was not

941
00:38:40,570 --> 00:38:38,260
aware of that is it's pretty amazing so

942
00:38:42,280 --> 00:38:40,580
let's talk about that but but just

943
00:38:44,890 --> 00:38:42,290
finish though with what was found in New

944
00:38:46,990 --> 00:38:44,900
York of what was found in New York all

945
00:38:48,460 --> 00:38:47,000
these pictures thousands of pictures of

946
00:38:49,810 --> 00:38:48,470
whatever it was do we have any reason to

947
00:38:54,160 --> 00:38:49,820
believe that any of that and we heard

948
00:38:55,780 --> 00:38:54,170
any reports that didn't they have there

949
00:38:56,410 --> 00:38:55,790
have been reports there were men with

950
00:38:58,150 --> 00:38:56,420
the girls

951
00:39:01,060 --> 00:38:58,160
nobody's been named they haven't said

952
00:39:04,030 --> 00:39:01,070
Prince Andrew was in one of those sexual

953
00:39:06,430 --> 00:39:04,040
photos there are photos of these famous

954
00:39:08,410 --> 00:39:06,440
men without young girls all over

955
00:39:10,599 --> 00:39:08,420
Epstein's house and really intimate

956
00:39:12,910 --> 00:39:10,609
situations you know Andrew a Brock

957
00:39:14,230 --> 00:39:12,920
President Clinton I've seen personal

958
00:39:16,390 --> 00:39:14,240
photos of them all throughout that

959
00:39:19,660 --> 00:39:16,400
property and they haven't been

960
00:39:21,670 --> 00:39:19,670
identified in like the x-rated images

961
00:39:23,470 --> 00:39:21,680
yet but they certainly have said that

962
00:39:26,200 --> 00:39:23,480
there were men in the pictures and then

963
00:39:29,260 --> 00:39:26,210
as far as Dugan he showed some of the

964
00:39:32,410 --> 00:39:29,270
video that he claims to have to another

965
00:39:35,740 --> 00:39:32,420
journalists raunchy Pesek and he says

966
00:39:37,630 --> 00:39:35,750
that he saw an older man with a younger

967
00:39:38,920 --> 00:39:37,640
woman like in a bedroom in a sexual

968
00:39:41,140 --> 00:39:38,930
situation that he didn't necessarily

969
00:39:44,140 --> 00:39:41,150
recognize okay let's let's tell this

970
00:39:46,750 --> 00:39:44,150
guy's story it's John mark Dugan yes

971
00:39:49,060 --> 00:39:46,760
okay so in he what he was the Palm Beach

972
00:39:53,950 --> 00:39:49,070
County Sheriff yes he was a deputy

973
00:39:56,859 --> 00:39:53,960
sheriff a deputy sheriff okay so how is

974
00:39:57,710 --> 00:39:56,869
it that he winds up with these materials

975
00:40:00,920 --> 00:39:57,720
which

976
00:40:03,440 --> 00:40:00,930
saying our pictures and video that are

977
00:40:05,359 --> 00:40:03,450
potential blackmail materials right how

978
00:40:07,820 --> 00:40:05,369
is it that he winds up with them as an

979
00:40:09,980 --> 00:40:07,830
individual as opposed to them being the

980
00:40:13,099 --> 00:40:09,990
property of Palm Beach County Sheriff's

981
00:40:16,190 --> 00:40:13,109
Department right so first of all just in

982
00:40:17,599 --> 00:40:16,200
general there was a lot of weird stuff

983
00:40:19,790 --> 00:40:17,609
that happened with evidence in Palm

984
00:40:21,770 --> 00:40:19,800
Beach like we were fighting them for

985
00:40:23,900 --> 00:40:21,780
almost a decade to get anything out of

986
00:40:25,370 --> 00:40:23,910
them and they told us all these stories

987
00:40:28,250 --> 00:40:25,380
though the records were in a place that

988
00:40:30,230 --> 00:40:28,260
flooded oh we lost them some of them got

989
00:40:32,089 --> 00:40:30,240
destroyed and when we move blah blah

990
00:40:34,400 --> 00:40:32,099
blah like there's a lot going on there

991
00:40:36,530 --> 00:40:34,410
but these documents were obtained in the

992
00:40:38,060 --> 00:40:36,540
beginning from a detective named Joseph

993
00:40:40,910 --> 00:40:38,070
or Cary who was with the Palm Beach

994
00:40:42,950 --> 00:40:40,920
Police so they handled the whole

995
00:40:44,270 --> 00:40:42,960
investigation not the sheriff's where

996
00:40:46,280 --> 00:40:44,280
the sheriff's got involved was when

997
00:40:48,050 --> 00:40:46,290
Epstein went to prison they were charged

998
00:40:51,349 --> 00:40:48,060
with kind of his whole prison situation

999
00:40:52,310 --> 00:40:51,359
his work-release stay on top of that and

1000
00:40:54,320 --> 00:40:52,320
we're talking about the difference

1001
00:40:56,210 --> 00:40:54,330
between city and county you same Beach

1002
00:40:57,200 --> 00:40:56,220
Police Palm Beach City and then if the

1003
00:40:59,089 --> 00:40:57,210
Sheriff's Department that's where they

1004
00:41:01,910 --> 00:40:59,099
get so they basically like handed the

1005
00:41:04,280 --> 00:41:01,920
case on and he says that he was really

1006
00:41:06,800 --> 00:41:04,290
close with Kerry that Rick Airy as the

1007
00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:06,810
leader in the investigation when he was

1008
00:41:10,640 --> 00:41:08,010
kind of handing the case over to the

1009
00:41:12,200 --> 00:41:10,650
sheriff gave the documents or copies of

1010
00:41:13,250 --> 00:41:12,210
the documents to do again and said like

1011
00:41:15,230 --> 00:41:13,260
hey here's what you're dealing with

1012
00:41:17,810 --> 00:41:15,240
here's all the case info here's what you

1013
00:41:19,310 --> 00:41:17,820
need to know and that's how he obtained

1014
00:41:21,620 --> 00:41:19,320
the documents and came to know of them

1015
00:41:23,510 --> 00:41:21,630
okay so probably they're copies they're

1016
00:41:25,550 --> 00:41:23,520
not originals or they're electronic so

1017
00:41:29,990 --> 00:41:25,560
he doesn't have the only copy of this

1018
00:41:32,359 --> 00:41:30,000
that they also stay right okay but still

1019
00:41:34,970 --> 00:41:32,369
he's it's given to him at his capacity

1020
00:41:38,540 --> 00:41:34,980
as a deputy at the Sheriff's Department

1021
00:41:39,320 --> 00:41:38,550
be total normal protocol okay okay what

1022
00:41:40,849 --> 00:41:39,330
happens next

1023
00:41:43,609 --> 00:41:40,859
I've seen the police reports where they

1024
00:41:45,200 --> 00:41:43,619
list all the DVDs that they got and you

1025
00:41:49,339 --> 00:41:45,210
know there certainly was a lot of

1026
00:41:50,480 --> 00:41:49,349
digital and VHS in the 90s material all

1027
00:41:52,870 --> 00:41:50,490
right so what happens with John mark

1028
00:41:57,980 --> 00:41:52,880
Dugan next so so he gets these materials

1029
00:42:00,530 --> 00:41:57,990
Epstein is in a county jail right and

1030
00:42:02,420 --> 00:42:00,540
what happens next was Dugan so he's

1031
00:42:04,130 --> 00:42:02,430
nothing really happens when Epstein's in

1032
00:42:06,589 --> 00:42:04,140
the prison he kind of oversees it he

1033
00:42:08,060 --> 00:42:06,599
says that it was you know irregular that

1034
00:42:10,089 --> 00:42:08,070
I've seen got to leave and stuff but he

1035
00:42:11,269 --> 00:42:10,099
was still you know toeing the line right

1036
00:42:13,969 --> 00:42:11,279
but

1037
00:42:16,399 --> 00:42:13,979
over time Dugan starts to witness he

1038
00:42:18,289 --> 00:42:16,409
says corruption inside the Palm Beach

1039
00:42:19,939 --> 00:42:18,299
Sheriff's Department inside the Palm

1040
00:42:21,589 --> 00:42:19,949
Beach Police Department that there are

1041
00:42:23,479 --> 00:42:21,599
things that are happening you know

1042
00:42:26,630 --> 00:42:23,489
including the treatment of Epstein that

1043
00:42:28,939 --> 00:42:26,640
he doesn't necessarily agree with so he

1044
00:42:30,049 --> 00:42:28,949
starts to be more vocal about what he

1045
00:42:32,499 --> 00:42:30,059
claims he's seeing in the police

1046
00:42:36,109 --> 00:42:32,509
department he's posting blogs online

1047
00:42:37,489 --> 00:42:36,119
accusing the police officers and his

1048
00:42:39,620 --> 00:42:37,499
higher-ups and the Sheriff's Department

1049
00:42:43,219 --> 00:42:39,630
of doing crazy things going to the

1050
00:42:45,799 --> 00:42:43,229
Caribbean for sex orgies not sysm like

1051
00:42:47,120 --> 00:42:45,809
just basic you know corruption within

1052
00:42:49,399 --> 00:42:47,130
the department human resources

1053
00:42:53,870 --> 00:42:49,409
corruption all stuff pertaining to

1054
00:42:56,569 --> 00:42:53,880
Epstein or not necessarily starts

1055
00:42:59,719 --> 00:42:56,579
becoming like a vigilante and saying

1056
00:43:02,120 --> 00:42:59,729
like hey this whole department is you

1057
00:43:04,130 --> 00:43:02,130
know rotten to the core and it's not

1058
00:43:06,529 --> 00:43:04,140
just that scene that there's all this

1059
00:43:08,269 --> 00:43:06,539
other stuff going on so he becomes more

1060
00:43:10,969 --> 00:43:08,279
and more public about that obviously

1061
00:43:13,459 --> 00:43:10,979
they don't appreciate that and then

1062
00:43:16,399 --> 00:43:13,469
shortly after that period of him be more

1063
00:43:21,140 --> 00:43:16,409
active online his home was raided by the

1064
00:43:22,849 --> 00:43:21,150
authorities um they said it had to do I

1065
00:43:26,390 --> 00:43:22,859
think with like a sexual harassment

1066
00:43:28,669 --> 00:43:26,400
claim at the office I'm not positive I

1067
00:43:31,039 --> 00:43:28,679
forget that detail but his home was

1068
00:43:33,019 --> 00:43:31,049
raided he freaks out and he's like what

1069
00:43:36,319 --> 00:43:33,029
I'm a target now why am i a target he

1070
00:43:39,559 --> 00:43:36,329
flees to Russia gets political asylum in

1071
00:43:43,069 --> 00:43:39,569
Russia which but he felt he was a target

1072
00:43:45,559 --> 00:43:43,079
of whom of the government of the US

1073
00:43:48,499 --> 00:43:45,569
government okay not of the Israeli

1074
00:43:50,209 --> 00:43:48,509
government or Mossad okay no he thought

1075
00:43:53,390 --> 00:43:50,219
that like he's talking he's being out

1076
00:43:55,279 --> 00:43:53,400
too much he's becoming a target within

1077
00:43:57,949 --> 00:43:55,289
the United States and the FBI and the

1078
00:44:00,439 --> 00:43:57,959
CIA they're like what do you actually

1079
00:44:03,259 --> 00:44:00,449
know and it's getting too hot for him

1080
00:44:07,429 --> 00:44:03,269
essentially so he flees to Russia okay

1081
00:44:09,049 --> 00:44:07,439
so a guy from Palm Beach a guy from Palm

1082
00:44:11,709 --> 00:44:09,059
Beach who is in the sheriff's

1083
00:44:14,959 --> 00:44:11,719
departments in Palm Beach Florida

1084
00:44:18,739 --> 00:44:14,969
abandons his family shoo quote/unquote

1085
00:44:20,959 --> 00:44:18,749
flee to of all places Russia right and

1086
00:44:23,179 --> 00:44:20,969
then Gladys just was arm in arms they

1087
00:44:25,100 --> 00:44:23,189
say you know come on in you at political

1088
00:44:29,060 --> 00:44:25,110
asylum like no problem

1089
00:44:30,800 --> 00:44:29,070
very highly unusual for the average you

1090
00:44:32,750 --> 00:44:30,810
know American police officer but again

1091
00:44:34,460 --> 00:44:32,760
is if you feel he was getting heat in

1092
00:44:36,440 --> 00:44:34,470
Palm Beach as a result of him blowing

1093
00:44:38,090 --> 00:44:36,450
the whistle and all kinds of impropriety

1094
00:44:39,950 --> 00:44:38,100
is going on to that office not

1095
00:44:42,200 --> 00:44:39,960
necessarily Epstein related stuff

1096
00:44:44,560 --> 00:44:42,210
include including the Epstein stuff and

1097
00:44:47,330 --> 00:44:44,570
and the main thing that you know

1098
00:44:49,160 --> 00:44:47,340
frightens him or made him feel like he

1099
00:44:51,350 --> 00:44:49,170
had to flee was that when the house was

1100
00:44:53,720 --> 00:44:51,360
raided whether that was because of

1101
00:44:55,190 --> 00:44:53,730
Epstein or the other stuff they started

1102
00:44:57,800 --> 00:44:55,200
going through his files and they took

1103
00:44:59,840 --> 00:44:57,810
you know things that he had at his house

1104
00:45:02,810 --> 00:44:59,850
and he didn't want them to get that

1105
00:45:04,670 --> 00:45:02,820
seemed blackmail files so he had taken

1106
00:45:07,610 --> 00:45:04,680
the black the Epstein blackmail files to

1107
00:45:12,590 --> 00:45:07,620
his house yeah that doesn't seem

1108
00:45:14,420 --> 00:45:12,600
appropriate there but he felt like you

1109
00:45:16,250 --> 00:45:14,430
know it's too much corruption going on I

1110
00:45:19,100 --> 00:45:16,260
gotta protect these took them to his

1111
00:45:21,590 --> 00:45:19,110
house he says and then you know in

1112
00:45:24,590 --> 00:45:21,600
further efforts to protect the documents

1113
00:45:27,440 --> 00:45:24,600
led to Russia and he says it was worth

1114
00:45:29,810 --> 00:45:27,450
it to leave his family his kids and he

1115
00:45:31,570 --> 00:45:29,820
hasn't seen them for like at least sixty

1116
00:45:34,340 --> 00:45:31,580
years he says it was worth it because

1117
00:45:35,980 --> 00:45:34,350
he's protecting the truth essentially he

1118
00:45:38,450 --> 00:45:35,990
doesn't want this to get covered up and

1119
00:45:40,100 --> 00:45:38,460
he says that he's gonna be speaking out

1120
00:45:43,130 --> 00:45:40,110
more and more about this and potentially

1121
00:45:45,200 --> 00:45:43,140
showing the videos more and more over

1122
00:45:49,010 --> 00:45:45,210
time he certainly has in the last couple

1123
00:45:52,700 --> 00:45:49,020
months what else has he been doing for

1124
00:45:54,620 --> 00:45:52,710
the past six years he's very active on

1125
00:46:00,320 --> 00:45:54,630
his blog I don't actually know what his

1126
00:46:06,110 --> 00:46:00,330
business is in Russia but yeah he posts

1127
00:46:07,460 --> 00:46:06,120
a lot online like he he posts a lot of

1128
00:46:09,650 --> 00:46:07,470
videos where he's running around in

1129
00:46:13,850 --> 00:46:09,660
really nice cars and Range Rovers and

1130
00:46:15,650 --> 00:46:13,860
nice apartments so and what would how

1131
00:46:17,840 --> 00:46:15,660
high up in the Russian government do we

1132
00:46:19,670 --> 00:46:17,850
think it goes as far as providing this I

1133
00:46:21,140 --> 00:46:19,680
don't think you really would call it

1134
00:46:23,710 --> 00:46:21,150
Asylum because hasn't been charged with

1135
00:46:27,080 --> 00:46:23,720
anything right so he's really not

1136
00:46:29,120 --> 00:46:27,090
avoiding the law per se um it's kind of

1137
00:46:33,050 --> 00:46:29,130
hard to figure out what exactly he's

1138
00:46:35,450 --> 00:46:33,060
doing why he's in Russia but presumably

1139
00:46:37,130 --> 00:46:35,460
yeah you got a has an extended visa to

1140
00:46:38,720 --> 00:46:37,140
be able to stay there that long longer

1141
00:46:41,000 --> 00:46:38,730
the heck does required

1142
00:46:44,359 --> 00:46:41,010
so how high up do we think this goes in

1143
00:46:46,990 --> 00:46:44,369
the Russian government I mean I think it

1144
00:46:49,790 --> 00:46:47,000
goes up to Putin I mean the KGB

1145
00:46:51,980 --> 00:46:49,800
certainly what is involved in all of the

1146
00:46:54,770 --> 00:46:51,990
Epstein stuff and Putin as former head

1147
00:46:56,120 --> 00:46:54,780
of the KGB is always intricately

1148
00:46:59,060 --> 00:46:56,130
involved with everything that they're

1149
00:47:01,070 --> 00:46:59,070
doing you know I'm sure it's not like

1150
00:47:02,450 --> 00:47:01,080
he's number one priority or just the

1151
00:47:04,670 --> 00:47:02,460
main thing that he's focusing on right

1152
00:47:06,710 --> 00:47:04,680
now but I'm sure that he knows about it

1153
00:47:10,250 --> 00:47:06,720
and that he was involved in it and they

1154
00:47:13,670 --> 00:47:10,260
it is like if it is true that he has

1155
00:47:15,740 --> 00:47:13,680
these tapes Prince Andrew and other you

1156
00:47:18,020 --> 00:47:15,750
know really powerful people around the

1157
00:47:20,180 --> 00:47:18,030
world of course that's a huge asset for

1158
00:47:21,560 --> 00:47:20,190
Russia in their own you know activities

1159
00:47:25,040 --> 00:47:21,570
right now to have within their borders

1160
00:47:28,910 --> 00:47:25,050
so what does he what does he assert that

1161
00:47:31,430 --> 00:47:28,920
he has has he been specific as far as

1162
00:47:33,980 --> 00:47:31,440
what men are in the videos for instance

1163
00:47:37,250 --> 00:47:33,990
he hasn't named any of the men yet he

1164
00:47:38,720 --> 00:47:37,260
says that he has a like a hard drive or

1165
00:47:41,150 --> 00:47:38,730
something with all these videos and

1166
00:47:43,130 --> 00:47:41,160
photos on it and that there are

1167
00:47:45,830 --> 00:47:43,140
surveillance videos taking him from like

1168
00:47:47,540 --> 00:47:45,840
you know a corner overlooking a bed or

1169
00:47:49,660 --> 00:47:47,550
something like that or different

1170
00:47:52,640 --> 00:47:49,670
positions in different rooms that show

1171
00:47:56,920 --> 00:47:52,650
older men having sex and doing sexual

1172
00:47:59,870 --> 00:47:56,930
acts with younger women so he hasn't

1173
00:48:03,020 --> 00:47:59,880
specifically said Prince Andrew is on

1174
00:48:05,270 --> 00:48:03,030
this tape but he said that he believes

1175
00:48:08,150 --> 00:48:05,280
he's being targeted now by the mi6

1176
00:48:12,710 --> 00:48:08,160
because they think that Andrews on the

1177
00:48:14,359 --> 00:48:12,720
tapes okay I don't want to could talk

1178
00:48:15,740 --> 00:48:14,369
all day so I want to get to a couple

1179
00:48:17,420 --> 00:48:15,750
other things before I before I let you

1180
00:48:19,640 --> 00:48:17,430
go so we'll do what maybe kind a little

1181
00:48:22,130 --> 00:48:19,650
bit of lightning round but the other

1182
00:48:24,950 --> 00:48:22,140
fascinating thing that came out that I

1183
00:48:30,830 --> 00:48:24,960
wasn't aware of is this guy al sepal who

1184
00:48:34,099 --> 00:48:30,840
was the husband of Isabel Maxwell sister

1185
00:48:36,020 --> 00:48:34,109
to ghilane Maxwell in a science day just

1186
00:48:38,900 --> 00:48:36,030
tell us that story real quick in in a

1187
00:48:40,430 --> 00:48:38,910
minute or two and then I'll yeah so I

1188
00:48:42,410 --> 00:48:40,440
found a woman when we started the book

1189
00:48:45,020 --> 00:48:42,420
in the podcast who is close friends with

1190
00:48:46,940 --> 00:48:45,030
Isabel Maxwell and she said to me hey

1191
00:48:50,420 --> 00:48:46,950
like you need to look into the fact that

1192
00:48:52,490 --> 00:48:50,430
Isabel her husband al suckle and Epstein

1193
00:48:55,880 --> 00:48:52,500
hosted a big like scientist calm

1194
00:48:57,470 --> 00:48:55,890
on little st. James and this conference

1195
00:48:59,660 --> 00:48:57,480
was part of that scenes efforts after

1196
00:49:01,460 --> 00:48:59,670
prison to seem like more respectable

1197
00:49:03,650 --> 00:49:01,470
member of society

1198
00:49:04,370 --> 00:49:03,660
so suckles involved with this close with

1199
00:49:07,160 --> 00:49:04,380
that scene

1200
00:49:09,140 --> 00:49:07,170
Seckel announces that he's trying to

1201
00:49:12,470 --> 00:49:09,150
sell some of Robert Maxwell's papers

1202
00:49:14,930 --> 00:49:12,480
cycle turns up dead he vanishes out of

1203
00:49:17,000 --> 00:49:14,940
nowhere and then his body's found like

1204
00:49:19,040 --> 00:49:17,010
at the end bottom of a ravine his cars

1205
00:49:19,880 --> 00:49:19,050
like totally separated somewhere in

1206
00:49:22,070 --> 00:49:19,890
Europe right

1207
00:49:25,580 --> 00:49:22,080
yeah and in France they said he was

1208
00:49:28,250 --> 00:49:25,590
going cave hunt like exploring caves in

1209
00:49:31,220 --> 00:49:28,260
France and he vanished and he also has a

1210
00:49:33,530 --> 00:49:31,230
major car crash before that after the

1211
00:49:35,810 --> 00:49:33,540
collapse and what's absurd to me it's

1212
00:49:37,940 --> 00:49:35,820
like nobody ever talks about this like

1213
00:49:39,740 --> 00:49:37,950
what you said you know Isabel Maxwell's

1214
00:49:42,020 --> 00:49:39,750
husband died and really strange

1215
00:49:44,540 --> 00:49:42,030
circumstances I was like that's really

1216
00:49:46,790 --> 00:49:44,550
interesting well her father as people

1217
00:49:48,230 --> 00:49:46,800
know what died in very strange

1218
00:49:49,820 --> 00:49:48,240
circumstances wherever still don't know

1219
00:49:53,030 --> 00:49:49,830
whether it was accident suicide or

1220
00:49:55,849 --> 00:49:53,040
murder well off of his yacht and then

1221
00:49:58,730 --> 00:49:55,859
here his son-in-law as just as

1222
00:50:00,530 --> 00:49:58,740
mysterious disappearance and ultimately

1223
00:50:02,540 --> 00:50:00,540
death because the bodies found like five

1224
00:50:04,040 --> 00:50:02,550
days later or something yeah yeah I mean

1225
00:50:06,079 --> 00:50:04,050
it was a really long time before they

1226
00:50:08,240 --> 00:50:06,089
even found the body and Isabel claimed

1227
00:50:10,520 --> 00:50:08,250
that she had no idea that like he was

1228
00:50:11,930 --> 00:50:10,530
even going hiking and they had no clue

1229
00:50:13,910 --> 00:50:11,940
where he was until the French

1230
00:50:17,329 --> 00:50:13,920
authorities found him like a week later

1231
00:50:18,920 --> 00:50:17,339
but it's a weird coincidence that all of

1232
00:50:21,380 --> 00:50:18,930
like the men connected to you these

1233
00:50:23,060 --> 00:50:21,390
Maxwell women are just kind of dropping

1234
00:50:24,890 --> 00:50:23,070
off like and what evidence

1235
00:50:28,339 --> 00:50:24,900
what's our evidence that he was trying

1236
00:50:30,740 --> 00:50:28,349
to sell robert maxwell documents there

1237
00:50:33,260 --> 00:50:30,750
was an interview with suckled that

1238
00:50:35,240 --> 00:50:33,270
actually came out like the week after he

1239
00:50:37,520 --> 00:50:35,250
died so it had been completed a couple

1240
00:50:40,430 --> 00:50:37,530
months before he died and in that

1241
00:50:42,290 --> 00:50:40,440
interview he told the magazine doing the

1242
00:50:43,760 --> 00:50:42,300
interview that he had this you know

1243
00:50:45,440 --> 00:50:43,770
cache of documents that were Robert

1244
00:50:49,099 --> 00:50:45,450
Maxwell's and he was looking to sell

1245
00:50:50,930 --> 00:50:49,109
them so that was like a huge red flag to

1246
00:50:55,130 --> 00:50:50,940
me when I read that because if Maxwell

1247
00:50:57,560 --> 00:50:55,140
was ostensibly working for Mossad they

1248
00:50:58,849 --> 00:50:57,570
would not want this random guy to be

1249
00:51:01,099 --> 00:50:58,859
going through all of his correspondence

1250
00:51:03,079 --> 00:51:01,109
and selling it to the highest bidder so

1251
00:51:06,230 --> 00:51:03,089
you know could that be connected

1252
00:51:08,090 --> 00:51:06,240
possibly so one of the things that's

1253
00:51:11,180 --> 00:51:08,100
the kind of stunning when I read the

1254
00:51:13,730 --> 00:51:11,190
book is I didn't realize how many people

1255
00:51:18,140 --> 00:51:13,740
still received Epstein after he had

1256
00:51:20,630 --> 00:51:18,150
served a prison term for essentially

1257
00:51:22,790 --> 00:51:20,640
statutory rape and dealing with underage

1258
00:51:24,050 --> 00:51:22,800
girls and anybody who did any scratching

1259
00:51:25,609 --> 00:51:24,060
of the surface would know that there was

1260
00:51:29,210 --> 00:51:25,619
far more to it than what he actually

1261
00:51:32,540 --> 00:51:29,220
served but people as prominent as Bill

1262
00:51:34,310 --> 00:51:32,550
Gates we're having numerous interactions

1263
00:51:37,460 --> 00:51:34,320
with them according to your book gates

1264
00:51:39,410 --> 00:51:37,470
met with him five or six times after he

1265
00:51:41,600 --> 00:51:39,420
got out of prison over the years yeah

1266
00:51:43,550 --> 00:51:41,610
and he bragged about it he emailed his

1267
00:51:44,750 --> 00:51:43,560
you know coworkers afterwards saying

1268
00:51:48,580 --> 00:51:44,760
like what a great night it was at

1269
00:51:51,740 --> 00:51:48,590
Geoffrey absence it's the most shocking

1270
00:51:53,750 --> 00:51:51,750
example of it is Epstein actually hosted

1271
00:51:55,670 --> 00:51:53,760
a kind of like hey guys I'm out of

1272
00:51:57,050 --> 00:51:55,680
prison party in New York his first

1273
00:52:00,820 --> 00:51:57,060
returned to the New York social scene

1274
00:52:03,590 --> 00:52:00,830
and the guest list for that was just a

1275
00:52:05,810 --> 00:52:03,600
bunch of a listers that you never expect

1276
00:52:07,820 --> 00:52:05,820
to so here with him Katie Couric George

1277
00:52:10,730 --> 00:52:07,830
Stephanopoulos Harvey Weinstein

1278
00:52:13,670 --> 00:52:10,740
Chelsea Handler was even there and these

1279
00:52:15,349 --> 00:52:13,680
people Harvey Weinstein part not such

1280
00:52:17,840 --> 00:52:15,359
that so much of a surprise but but yes

1281
00:52:20,000 --> 00:52:17,850
the other ones Charlie Charlie Rose I

1282
00:52:22,790 --> 00:52:20,010
I'm going from the list from from your

1283
00:52:25,160 --> 00:52:22,800
book Woody Allen but there was a

1284
00:52:26,599 --> 00:52:25,170
question but but there's a there's a

1285
00:52:29,109 --> 00:52:26,609
question you guys raised in the book and

1286
00:52:33,140 --> 00:52:29,119
that was whether or not these guests

1287
00:52:34,849 --> 00:52:33,150
understood that this was a party

1288
00:52:36,740 --> 00:52:34,859
celebrating him getting out here because

1289
00:52:38,480 --> 00:52:36,750
I think you guys say that his home this

1290
00:52:40,430 --> 00:52:38,490
unbelievable most expensive mansion in

1291
00:52:41,660 --> 00:52:40,440
New York while he was in prison was

1292
00:52:44,930 --> 00:52:41,670
actually rented out for some parties

1293
00:52:46,580 --> 00:52:44,940
yeah so they people like Katie Couric

1294
00:52:48,800 --> 00:52:46,590
and Chelsea Handler said that they came

1295
00:52:50,840 --> 00:52:48,810
because they didn't even really know who

1296
00:52:52,580 --> 00:52:50,850
he was it was just more like hey this is

1297
00:52:54,500 --> 00:52:52,590
gonna be an elaborate party with the

1298
00:52:56,150 --> 00:52:54,510
elite of New York it's really exclusive

1299
00:52:58,400 --> 00:52:56,160
come check it out it'll be like a weird

1300
00:53:02,390 --> 00:52:58,410
fun little weird bucket list kind of

1301
00:53:05,420 --> 00:53:02,400
thing but you know it just begs like it

1302
00:53:07,490 --> 00:53:05,430
begs further discussion that in 2010

1303
00:53:09,380 --> 00:53:07,500
like maybe it wasn't the full on Twitter

1304
00:53:12,890 --> 00:53:09,390
culture as it is now but there was the

1305
00:53:14,780 --> 00:53:12,900
internet and like you I don't know

1306
00:53:16,609 --> 00:53:14,790
people had to have known about this he

1307
00:53:17,750 --> 00:53:16,619
it wasn't like he was just operating in

1308
00:53:20,150 --> 00:53:17,760
Palm Beach he was friends with the

1309
00:53:23,630 --> 00:53:20,160
Clintons and like how did George

1310
00:53:25,190 --> 00:53:23,640
not know who he was right what about

1311
00:53:27,289 --> 00:53:25,200
Woody Allen is there any other

1312
00:53:29,779 --> 00:53:27,299
connections other than this party

1313
00:53:31,370 --> 00:53:29,789
between Woody Allen in him no record of

1314
00:53:33,289 --> 00:53:31,380
any connections besides the fact that

1315
00:53:34,160 --> 00:53:33,299
they were kind of neighbors they live

1316
00:53:36,770 --> 00:53:34,170
really close together

1317
00:53:40,430 --> 00:53:36,780
on the same street which also in close

1318
00:53:48,010 --> 00:53:40,440
proximity was home to Bill Cosby so not

1319
00:53:50,930 --> 00:53:48,020
the best place to be a young girl right

1320
00:53:52,370 --> 00:53:50,940
what about just ticking through a couple

1321
00:53:54,589 --> 00:53:52,380
of the other names that are associated

1322
00:53:55,760 --> 00:53:54,599
with him that would seem to be sweating

1323
00:53:57,319 --> 00:53:55,770
a little bit

1324
00:53:59,569 --> 00:53:57,329
or maybe sweating less now that he's

1325
00:54:01,549 --> 00:53:59,579
dead but Bill Clinton seems to be kind

1326
00:54:03,349 --> 00:54:01,559
of at the top of that list right as you

1327
00:54:06,410 --> 00:54:03,359
sit here today based on everything that

1328
00:54:08,450 --> 00:54:06,420
you've reviewed etc is it's what what's

1329
00:54:11,000 --> 00:54:08,460
your best guess as to whether or not

1330
00:54:12,680 --> 00:54:11,010
Clinton himself indulged in underage

1331
00:54:16,880 --> 00:54:12,690
women via Epstein

1332
00:54:18,650 --> 00:54:16,890
I mean I'm positive he indulged even if

1333
00:54:20,150 --> 00:54:18,660
that was just like looking at them and

1334
00:54:22,670 --> 00:54:20,160
enjoying them parading around in their

1335
00:54:25,730 --> 00:54:22,680
tight little clothes you know um I'm a

1336
00:54:28,760 --> 00:54:25,740
huge Democrat and liberal I met Clinton

1337
00:54:32,089 --> 00:54:28,770
but but you know everything about him

1338
00:54:33,440 --> 00:54:32,099
like that would be that's totally par

1339
00:54:35,450 --> 00:54:33,450
for the course for him to be hanging out

1340
00:54:38,269 --> 00:54:35,460
with young hot women all the time and

1341
00:54:39,950 --> 00:54:38,279
the fact that he deliberately took a lot

1342
00:54:43,190 --> 00:54:39,960
of these slights without his Secret

1343
00:54:45,170 --> 00:54:43,200
Service agents which is not common you

1344
00:54:47,089 --> 00:54:45,180
know makes it clear that this was more

1345
00:54:48,680 --> 00:54:47,099
of like a personal relationship for him

1346
00:54:51,529 --> 00:54:48,690
and that he was doing things I mean I

1347
00:54:54,500 --> 00:54:51,539
didn't necessarily want them to see do I

1348
00:54:57,049 --> 00:54:54,510
think that he was involved in an orgy in

1349
00:55:00,620 --> 00:54:57,059
the Caribbean like some of the victims

1350
00:55:03,260 --> 00:55:00,630
have claimed not necessarily but like

1351
00:55:06,950 --> 00:55:03,270
for sure he was on the plane with women

1352
00:55:09,829 --> 00:55:06,960
for sure he got some kind of a like a

1353
00:55:11,569 --> 00:55:09,839
rise out of the situation whether it was

1354
00:55:13,670 --> 00:55:11,579
just the novelty of being in the jet

1355
00:55:15,019 --> 00:55:13,680
with these women you know there there

1356
00:55:16,849 --> 00:55:15,029
was definitely it wasn't all business

1357
00:55:19,069 --> 00:55:16,859
for sure well and by the way I think

1358
00:55:21,470 --> 00:55:19,079
it's important to remind people that not

1359
00:55:23,839 --> 00:55:21,480
all the women were underage then in fact

1360
00:55:25,819 --> 00:55:23,849
it seems like it was a minority of the

1361
00:55:30,529 --> 00:55:25,829
girls entered albeit they're young

1362
00:55:31,819 --> 00:55:30,539
they're 18 19 20 but it seems like the

1363
00:55:33,030 --> 00:55:31,829
majority of them were actually of age

1364
00:55:34,740 --> 00:55:33,040
yeah so

1365
00:55:36,240 --> 00:55:34,750
that's one thing that his brother has

1366
00:55:40,800 --> 00:55:36,250
been talking about a lot more recently

1367
00:55:42,510 --> 00:55:40,810
is that after he went to prison most of

1368
00:55:43,620 --> 00:55:42,520
the women I think pretty much all the

1369
00:55:45,780 --> 00:55:43,630
women that we know about that were

1370
00:55:47,610 --> 00:55:45,790
around him were of age that like he said

1371
00:55:49,560 --> 00:55:47,620
they were really young and it was only

1372
00:55:52,710 --> 00:55:49,570
before the prison stent that he had

1373
00:55:53,850 --> 00:55:52,720
these 16 15 14 year-olds so what we

1374
00:55:55,950 --> 00:55:53,860
heard from a lot of people that were

1375
00:55:58,500 --> 00:55:55,960
around him in the Palm Beaches and later

1376
00:56:00,570 --> 00:55:58,510
was that like they just didn't know who

1377
00:56:01,860 --> 00:56:00,580
how old the girls were like they assumed

1378
00:56:04,020 --> 00:56:01,870
that they were in their 20s because they

1379
00:56:05,640 --> 00:56:04,030
looked they looked older and that can

1380
00:56:09,690 --> 00:56:05,650
certainly happen with younger women but

1381
00:56:11,550 --> 00:56:09,700
like nobody was asking for IDs mm-hmm

1382
00:56:13,050 --> 00:56:11,560
last one I want to ask you about is Alan

1383
00:56:18,900 --> 00:56:13,060
Dershowitz you guys interviewed him for

1384
00:56:21,480 --> 00:56:18,910
the book right yes yes were you the

1385
00:56:24,660 --> 00:56:21,490
person interviewing him hurt no it was a

1386
00:56:25,620 --> 00:56:24,670
reporter Jen hey ger good a really long

1387
00:56:27,150 --> 00:56:25,630
time she's great

1388
00:56:29,670 --> 00:56:27,160
okay so you've never directly

1389
00:56:32,730 --> 00:56:29,680
interviewed Dershowitz about this no I

1390
00:56:34,620 --> 00:56:32,740
personally have not spoken with him he

1391
00:56:38,460 --> 00:56:34,630
comes out whenever you see him you know

1392
00:56:41,820 --> 00:56:38,470
he's been very out front on this and you

1393
00:56:43,950 --> 00:56:41,830
know very defensive of his involvement

1394
00:56:46,800 --> 00:56:43,960
and you know he articulates a very very

1395
00:56:48,660 --> 00:56:46,810
strong case in his favor because he's a

1396
00:56:50,970 --> 00:56:48,670
great lawyer to say that hey I

1397
00:56:55,080 --> 00:56:50,980
absolutely did not build but one of the

1398
00:56:57,720 --> 00:56:55,090
women in particular formerly a girl like

1399
00:57:00,120 --> 00:56:57,730
is that he did participate right right

1400
00:57:04,530 --> 00:57:00,130
so Virginia Roberts jew-free said in her

1401
00:57:07,020 --> 00:57:04,540
civil case back in 2014 that he did rape

1402
00:57:09,240 --> 00:57:07,030
her as part of her quote about work with

1403
00:57:11,840 --> 00:57:09,250
Jeffrey Epstein so we've been in

1404
00:57:15,180 --> 00:57:11,850
communication with him about this since

1405
00:57:22,700 --> 00:57:15,190
2014-2015 and he's been very adamant

1406
00:57:26,880 --> 00:57:22,710
like you said that it's all lies so I

1407
00:57:30,300 --> 00:57:26,890
take him at his word well I mean it's

1408
00:57:32,310 --> 00:57:30,310
it's his word against hers yeah so what

1409
00:57:33,780 --> 00:57:32,320
did the two of them is lying so you know

1410
00:57:35,940 --> 00:57:33,790
then you looked at motivation and you're

1411
00:57:38,580 --> 00:57:35,950
like well obviously he's got reason to

1412
00:57:40,610 --> 00:57:38,590
lie so then you go to hers and what

1413
00:57:42,680 --> 00:57:40,620
would be her reason you

1414
00:57:44,090 --> 00:57:42,690
make that up and if he is making that up

1415
00:57:46,790 --> 00:57:44,100
then it calls into question everybody

1416
00:57:48,620 --> 00:57:46,800
else but everything else the Chiefs top

1417
00:57:51,650 --> 00:57:48,630
spot because especially where we are now

1418
00:57:54,320 --> 00:57:51,660
culturally like believe victims right

1419
00:57:56,930 --> 00:57:54,330
like you they say it it's true but he

1420
00:57:59,270 --> 00:57:56,940
says that he has you know tons of

1421
00:58:00,920 --> 00:57:59,280
documentation about this that he wants

1422
00:58:04,490 --> 00:58:00,930
like the cases to move forward so he's

1423
00:58:07,730 --> 00:58:04,500
the opportunity to defend himself he

1424
00:58:09,950 --> 00:58:07,740
says even in his kind of more friendship

1425
00:58:15,590 --> 00:58:09,960
years with Epstein that he never saw

1426
00:58:18,140 --> 00:58:15,600
anything untoward I think he might admit

1427
00:58:19,790 --> 00:58:18,150
I I read his I read his deposition

1428
00:58:22,190 --> 00:58:19,800
testimony where he's asked about this

1429
00:58:25,820 --> 00:58:22,200
and I know that one of his points is

1430
00:58:28,250 --> 00:58:25,830
that she did not want to name him in a

1431
00:58:30,080 --> 00:58:28,260
lawsuit and the attorney was kind of

1432
00:58:31,820 --> 00:58:30,090
making the point that okay that doesn't

1433
00:58:33,410 --> 00:58:31,830
mean that she's saying it didn't happen

1434
00:58:37,310 --> 00:58:33,420
there could be a variety losing's why

1435
00:58:39,380 --> 00:58:37,320
she chose I think he might acknowledge

1436
00:58:43,310 --> 00:58:39,390
if I'm remembering correctly that he at

1437
00:58:46,400 --> 00:58:43,320
least knew her or had met her I don't

1438
00:58:48,770 --> 00:58:46,410
know I don't know he did say that he

1439
00:58:54,170 --> 00:58:48,780
oughta massage in Palm Beach but he said

1440
00:59:02,870 --> 00:58:54,180
it was an old lady named Olga everyone

1441
00:59:04,430 --> 00:59:02,880
else was busy that day I haven't we had

1442
00:59:06,350 --> 00:59:04,440
certainly haven't found anything beyond

1443
00:59:09,680 --> 00:59:06,360
the witness witness testimony that would

1444
00:59:11,860 --> 00:59:09,690
implicate him at all and I'm sure like

1445
00:59:15,010 --> 00:59:11,870
you said he's going to continue to

1446
00:59:18,080 --> 00:59:15,020
really adamantly defend himself until